NetVUE’s podcast Callings recently released an episode featuring an interview with Angela Duckworth, the author of the well-known book Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance, a number one New York Times bestseller. Her TED talk on this topic is one of the most watched of all time. A 2013 MacArthur Fellow, Angela is the Rosa Lee and Egbert Chang Professor in the department of psychology and faculty co-director of the Behavior Change for Good initiative in the Wharton School, both at the University of Pennsylvania. Angela’s wide experience includes having advised the World Bank, NBA and NFL teams, Fortune 500 CEOs, as well as working as a math and science teacher in the public school system. She founded a summer school for underserved children and co-founded the Character Lab, a nonprofit dedicated to advancing scientific insights that help children thrive. Angela holds degrees from Harvard, Oxford, and the University of Pennsylvania.
In this wide-ranging conversation, Angela explores the wisdom of Howard Thurman and Viktor Frankl, the alignment between values and decision making, and the ways a constellation of mentors—especially those whom students encounter at college—can benefit them as they explore their calling. As she notes, when reflecting on the impact artificial intelligence will have on our world, higher education, and our students, “I will tell you as a psychologist that the need for connection, especially at this stage of life, will never go away. And I don’t know of a better institution than serving that need than colleges.”
Her research on the overlap between perseverance and passion offers new perspectives on vocation, especially relating to flourishing, contributing to the well-being of others, goal setting, and risk-taking. In the interview, Angela describes human flourishing as:
“when we see someone who is living a life where they have frequent feelings of happiness and contentment, when they have a smaller number of feelings of despair and sadness and anxiety and anger. I say fewer because I don’t think a flourishing life means to have none of those negative emotions. In fact, I don’t think that would be good at all. But on balance, you should see somebody who’s smiling a lot and feeling very grateful, very joyful, very optimistic.”
As important as an individual’s feelings are in this respect, Angela sees flourishing more relationally, especially in terms of living vocationally. “There’s a dimension that is beyond how you are feeling,” she argues, that involves “what you are doing for others.” In this way, pursuing the good life, “means to live your life in service to others separate from how it makes you feel,” which allows us to “feel a kind a fulfillment which is even greater than pleasure or pride.”
All of this work requires a certain kind of goal-setting and perseverance that brings Angela back to her research on grit. Reflecting on high achievers, she notes that many “have a top-level goal, a telos” to their life, which Angela describes as an “ultimate concern.” “The very grittiest people,” she observes, “have an intentionality” to their lives that can be the foundation of their vocations.
For Angela, discerning a vocation can involve uncovering a pathway that, over time, has become overgrown and buried. It can also look like the activity of the paramecium, a single-cell organism that “basically moves toward warmth and nutrition.” Encouraging students to learn from this behavior, she suggests, “just notice where you feel good and try to spend more time there,” and “if you hit an obstacle, back up and try something different.” As with so much of what she recommends in this interview, grit might help us continue pursuing that path.
Click hereto listen to the episode featuring Angela Duckworth, “Grit and Purpose.”
Geoffrey W. Bateman is the editor of Vocation Matters.